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My wife Shelly really disliked my father. Before he died over 20 years ago she was polite when we were with him, but when we were alone she made no secret of her disdain for him.
Why Shelly disliked my father
She thought she had good reason for her resentment. In her eyes he had treated me very badly: He had not helped me financially as a child, while I was working my way through college, or during my early adult years when I struggled. Most people who knew about my relationship with my father agreed with her that my father was “cheap” and had treated me “badly.”
My parents had divorced when I was three. My dad provided my mom with virtually no child support ($15 a week) despite his ability to do much more. He had little involvement in my upbringing. When I was 14 he told me he was leaving town (we lived in Miami Beach at the time) because, he said, “Your mom is driving me out of town with her constant requests for money.” By this time he was giving her $30 a week and she was working two jobs to make ends meet.
He didn’t tell me where he was going when he left and the only way I could reach him was to give a letter to my aunt (his sister who still lived in Miami Beach) and she would mail it to him. My dad didn’t help me financially with college (despite telling me hundreds of times how important it was to get a college education) and I saw him only three times in the next 27 years.
I reestablished contact with my father
After attending a workshop on completing your relationship with your parents, I tracked my dad down and reestablished contact. I saw him once a year and talked every couple of months. After I married Shelly we were in even closer contact. He enjoyed spending time with my oldest daughter Blake during the first few years of her life.
Although as a child I missed having a dad in my life and although I was upset as a child about how hard my mom had to work when my dad could have helped a lot more, by the time I married Shelly and had children, I held no resentment toward him.
Shelly and I gave my father’s behavior different meanings
You see, the meaning Shelly gave my father’s behavior is that he was a bad father who didn’t really care about his son. The meaning I gave my father’s behavior is that he did the best he could do given his beliefs, especially his beliefs about money. Because he lived through the depression, he was always worried about money, even after he accumulated over a million dollars.
Moreover, my dad had never finished high school and was a “self-made” man. He was a successful businessman who had never received assistance from anyone. He told me shortly before he died that he was concerned that if he helped me financially in college and beyond, I would never know that I could make it on my own.
Here’s the point of my story. After Shelly learned how my father had treated my mom and me as I was growing up, she asked me how I could forgive my father. I replied: “There is nothing to forgive. Even though I wasn’t happy about what he did at the time, he did what he thought was best for me.”
What I didn’t realize at the time and I do today is that events have no inherent meaning. In order to forgive you need to have been wronged. If events have no meaning, wrong exists only in your mind—it is a meaning you give to the other person’s behavior. No meaning, no wrong. No wrong, nothing to forgive.
(I’m sure that some readers will think of situations that must have inherent meaning. See two earlier blog posts that delve deeper into what I mean by events have no meaning and some of the implications of that fact. https://www.mortylefkoe.com/why-create-meaning/#, https://www.mortylefkoe.com/real-meaning/#)
Here’s how someone else saw the same issue
Here is a comment posted by someone in my occurring class about forgiveness once he got that all meaning was in his mind, not in the world.
“I do not expect any admissions or apologies anymore. The events have been made neutral, non meaningful and its impact will evaporate with that understanding. … It is important for me to understand letting something pass into non meaning does not mean forgiving that event, because if something does not mean anything it does not need to be forgiven. It just is not important.”
You don’t need to forgive yourself either
By the way, just as you don’t need to forgive others because they didn’t do anything “wrong,” so too you also don’t need to forgive yourself for anything because you’ve never done anything that needs forgiveness. Dissolve the meaning that seems to make forgiveness necessary and there will be nothing left to forgive.
This is likely to be a very controversial post. I’d really love to know if you agree or disagree with my point of view and why.
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copyright ©2012 Morty Lefkoe
Forgiveness is real – and you need it. God created the world and all have sinned against Him. You NEED His forgiveness, or you will get what you DESERVE for your sins – the lake of fire. Jesus Christ is the Savior. He died and rose again to bring forgiveness of sins.
We don’t live in a land of make-believe. Events have meaning. YOU have purpose – you were CREATED by God for a PURPOSE. We live in a world with objective truths. I implore you to seek for these truths. The answer is in Jesus Christ.
An outstanding share! I’ve just forwarded this onto a coworker who has been doing
a little homework on this. And he actually
bought me dinner because I stumbled upon it for him… lol.
So let me reword this…. Thank YOU for the meal!!
But yeah, thanx for spending some time to discuss this matter
here on your internet site.
LOVE your post! I agree 100% .
Recognizing that there is nothing to forgive is the only way to freedom (and love). When a person ‘forgives’ they move from a victim who is defeated to a victim who is the ‘bigger person’ – but they are still the “victim”! Naturally, staying in the low-vibration of victim consciousness continues to leave them powerless to create the life they REALLY want.
Well said, and thanks for posting! I found this post while writing a blog on the same subject, and would love to quote you and link back (with your permission, of course). Thanks!
Hi Mindy,
Thanks for your interest in my post.
Feel free to quote from the post and link back to the entire post on my blog.
Love, Morty
Forgiveness is, any way you slice it, a way of making yourself superior and surreptitiously hanging onto the injury. As Morty says, we don’t like to give up beliefs because they get to be part of our identity and if we give them up it feels initially like you are giving up part of who you really are, like an arm or a leg! I’ve been struggling with my husband for almost four years, who needs to have a much higher level control of his environment than I do. I can’t boil water, literally, without him coming over and telling me how to do it. I’ve been stressed out of my mind – I’d get really angry because it felt like he was treating me like a child. I’ve really come to see in the past week of working Morty’s system that this is just my interpretation and it isn’t reality. Amazing. He does the same things and I just smile a little because I recognize it’s just him being him and doing what he knows how to do and keep going. I observe me getting ready to get annoyed and I can see the feelings as an outsider and they just stop. But bigger still, I’m working on clearing beliefs that have put me here in the first place. Most likely I am going to leave this relationship because my preference is to be around someone more easy going (and other issues, this isn’t the only one). There is a HUGE difference to “I can’t stand you, I’m leaving” and “I like you, I like me and I would prefer to live in a different way that you do, the compromise attempts haven’t worked, so I’m allowing both of us to go free to a better situation for both of our own good” and truly mean that from the heart. Morty’s work is not unlike Byron Katie or Course in Miracles, but I like his approach because you know exactly what you are clearing and how it got there. I did “I’m not good enough” for free and now I just laugh at that so-called belief because it was never true. I wrote down the list of the common ones and in doing so I could tell immediately which ones had a charge. I also wrote down some of my own. Looking forward to doing the clearing program and really charging forward. Hurray and thumbs up and gratitude for Morty and his work!
Thank you Stephanie for your courageous post. I know you have helped a lot of people with it. And this is such a great recommendation for Morty. Good luck in your journey.
Forgiveness is a useful waypoint. Alas, people stop there and that means they have to revisit it again and again, effectively infinitely. Here is one explanation of how to get out of that repetitive behavior: http://www.veraclaritas.com/why-forgiveness-is-a-stop-gap-measure/
your father neglected you. dont justify what he did. its possible to justify anyones actions, it doesnt mean anything.
forgiveness is a selfish act. You don’t believe me? Well what forgiveness actually does is keep you in the clear. How? Well it frees you emotionally and therefore releases your body from pain and suffering, stress and anxiety. How could they have perpetrated such a crime against me? How could he have allowed me to be led on in this manner? How could he possibly have done this to me after I instilled my trust in him? After all I’ve done for them this is the thanks I get? What really begins to fester is resentment, hatred, discord, jealousy an entire wave of deep psychological waves that create turmoil in the natural bodily functions and eventually cause cells to metastasize and mutate. It is a fact. Therefore to live conscientiously and proactively, and fully aware that people are like landmines, bullets, and grenades (sometimes unintentionally and unaware that they are causing harm and inflicting lifelong injurious wounds mentally, physically, and psychologically) You must be careful who you entrust your mind, body, and soul to It is a precious gift that was given by God to shrewdly protect at all cost. Finally we are sometimes thrust into the arena with people involuntarily, for example, parents, teachers, family, friends, relatives, authority, In that instance learning quickly and forgiving quickly will be a necessary component to a healthy vivacious life. Otherwise you will remain shackled by the haunting images of people behaving at a level of deep dark unawareness, not living up to their fullest God-given potential acting out of a place of ignorance and unknowing of the consequences of their actions and the automatic repercussions that uncoil on them. It is a deep subject but the philosophy has been proven time and time again.
Hello
In reading all the posts it is clear that even words have no inherent meaning till I make one up..
The meaninglessness that is talked about here, was not the one of my experience. I had to start over, forget what I had and let the new sink in a bit when I took the course.
Another word I started over with was to “forgive .
In forgive I am making it mean” now , to hold on to the meaning the event had in your mind as something that harmed you ,and then overlook your interpretation using a higher moral standing. Not even close to effective because,
Any process that involves resolving the meaning you give the event, that keeps that meaning in mind , see it as true is not what is being talked about here and will not work.
So, forgiveness is not a part of this process in any form. How can I say that ?I have worked that angle and nothing changed , till I got the insights of LOP.
It makes no sense to have an effect ( bad feelings) if the cause does not even exist. It is from another’s construct of mind or map. It is not , transforming feelings into something less harsh, re framed , positive thinking, wishing it away with by not focusing on it, and it is not forgiving with moral superiority .
I wonder how many times further trauma is caused by well meaning people that give the advice to others who have gone through very bad violent events ,that they need to to “forgive”.
I have a suggestion that I am using on some constant naysayers of all things in my life. I ask ,What if they talked it in a language I did not understand? Would it mean anything to me?
It goes away pretty damn quick.
Now that I think about it when they use English it is still a language I do not understand . It is the language of their beliefs, outlooks, expectations and their emotional state. All which are really clear are not mine.
Lastly
I know it really stinks to have someone in a position of power put some nasty situations together and put it on you. I have a hard time with that one as well. I had a little breakthrough I can share , I realize it takes two to tango. Bullies and there friends thrive on reaction , without it they are dead in the water. Making it all meaningless and to see it as an occurring and do the work till it is dissolved , is the fastest shortest route to doing that. If you need to go to the bottom of your being to do that do it.
I had a very humiliating situation happen at work that I have been bullied about
for over 2 years. It has been a group effort to keep this over my head & the owner of the company lets it go on. It had nothing to do with
my work. I have not missed a day, I like my job, I am successful but I keep getting put down for this situation. A female co worker is the hardest on me
& I believe she is trying to get me out of the company I have worked for for 30 years. Where is forgiveness in this situation? Why do people need to try to control me over something that is not their business? They will not let it go.
Morty I think you are mistaken about what has happened to you because if you did not like what your dad did you had a resentment and it had to be forgiven or at least accepted so you did change your mind set but thats my opinionBill
I like the idea of being in control and defusing anger for being ‘wronged’ into a less destructive ‘occurance’ or ‘belief’, however, I struggle with the need for accountability and behavior modification. Ignoring ‘wrong’ behavior means tolerating it and this turns into acceptance and then the behavior is somewhat nurtured into being approved. There are black and white issues.
Morty, as far as you father is concerned, his reasoning behind not helping you and your mom is a cop out. It’s fine to accept his irresponsibility as being a result of his upbringing but change does not come from accepting the mistakes of the past. Or are you setting yourself up for the same excuse? jk…
Hi I am a big fan of dissolving limiting beliefs and creating news that will contribute in a positive way to our lives and I do love reading other peoples perspectives and so forth and I think that forming points of view is inherent to being human as it is a function of the mind.
However I think that we can either be mindful about our points of view or we can be automatic just drawing from similar situations from our past. Jumping to conclusions. Giving meaning is about personal interpretation, a very natural process and I think it comes down to our response-ability or maybe we think that others have control of our feelings i.e they made me feel this way or that.
I have used the Holo Pono Pono technique to clear my beliefs from an energetic stand point. e.g I found I was still reactive/emotionally distressed when I thought about a person I used to know which I once called a friend. Cut it short I felt she intentionally hurt me because of who knows why. Anyway I didn’t like the fact that I still held onto this resentment and anger towards her 30 yrs later so I did the above process in my mind for my own personal benefit. My interpretation in this instance – I said her name then I said I am sorry for holding onto these negative feelings, please forgive me for holding these nasty points of view that I direct at you and thank you for reminding me I still hold onto them and I love you for that.
In all reality I have given these statements my own meaning as with any message the receiver interpenetrates them in accordance to their own existing points of view formed from past experience.
Saying all this Morty your techniques are formed with seemingly good intention however they are constructed in relation to your points of view or you would not have created them. I believe your technique is cleaver and I have used them with success. I also believe that everything has it’s place and one size so to speak does not fit all and we would be silly to think that it does.
I thank everyone that has contributed to this online dialog and thank you Morty especially for providing this space and your concepts for us to explore.
With love Debbie
Hi Debbie,
Thanks for taking the time to post your comments.
I agree, one size does not always fit all. What I share is based on my experience and the experience of thousands of people who have used The Lefkoe Method. What this group achieves is not necessarily what everyone will achieve. And … the odds are good that it will help most people.
Love, Morty
forgiveness is for the person that has been injured. What does it mean? In order to live a healthy, normal, vivacious life you must forgive, now whether it is after the persons death that has harmed you is totally up to you. Injuries will occur in life, mental and physical, no one escapes unscathed (refer to the garden) There are acts of cowardice and malice this is why we have such an illustrious personal injury field and acts of retaliation and ongoing wars. Once we learn to forgive, or turn the other cheek we can exterminate the flames of hate and violence. Someone has to be the bigger man or woman or else the vicious murderous cycle will continue until the end of life as we know it. According to revelation there is no good end to the story.
This post is incredibly interesting. Mostly because it defies the conventional personal development that often explains why it is important for us to forgive others and ourselves for past actions. It is hard to wrap our heads around the fact that these actions had no inherent meaning, but I believe that the reason we hold onto meaning so much is because it is socially programmed into us. To us if nothing had any meaning we wouldn’t enjoy life as much. I contributed to results from the past that I sometimes think, “Why did you do that?” They seem so real, because some of these actions had led to physical results. Overall it is a very interesting topic as it is also very liberating.
How can I get into contact with a Morty Leftkoe facilitator? I have the ‘Recreate Your Life’ program that revolves around confidence beliefs. I have other beliefs though that I would like confront. You could reach me at my email: nicolasb86@gmail.com
Thanks!
Hi Nicolas,
I’d glad you found my post interesting.
If you want to set up an appointment with a Lefkoe Method facilitator, please call us at (415) 506-4472.
Love, Morty
My initial reaction to this(but I will study it more) is with the background or treatment you received from your father many people in similar circumstances would have futures as drunks, drug addicts, turn to criminal activity or perhaps commit suicide. Sorry I don’t get it- your wife comes off looking more like a cad then your father does. Your father placed you in a situation where many people would not thrive in..
Hi Morty
I do agree to your point of view to a certain degree. But do events really have no meaning, just because we cannot know them?
What if someone hurts you and clearly states, that he means to hurt you. Isn’t it clear here, that the event has the meaning that the person also is communicating?
I really see no answer to those questions, that could go with your theory. Would be great, if you can tell me your view on them.
Warm regards,
John
Hey Morty
I have a serious question. As one who has been studying your work for almost two years, and has eliminated over a hundred beliefs (on my own), I now clearly understand that events really don’t have inherent meaning.
But I’m not sure about something: In a case like murder, do you think that the family of the murdered person could forgive the killer? Or as you say, realize that the murder (event) had no meaning, and thus wouldn’t need to forgive the killer? I know that they could dissolve the meanings they gave that event, but do you think that in this case, it would really be effective?
Morty:
While I can and do agree, that initially actions (wrong or right, or neither if you choose not to distinguish) have no “inherent” meaning. The meaning doesn’t exist until I attribute the meaning to the occurrence. However, we (even you) cannot go through life holding a continuous belief that everything occurrence around us is initially and forever meaningless.
Sometimes extreme examples are good for putting things into perspective and distinguishing. What if, for example, your wife intentionally tried to hurt you (emotionally and physically), and told you that she acted in that way, intentionally. Is it meaningless? As the creator of a belief/meaning you know that initially the act has no inherent meaning, and only carries a meaning once you attribute one to it. But in the way we live our lives, certain things have to “matter” to us, they have to have “meaning.” When things matter and have meaning it gives us motivation to act in one way or another, it gives us the ability to choose who we spend time with, and who we don’t. So in that regard, you may be able to conclude that the action has no initial meaning, but you do (and are right in doing so) attribute a meaning to actions, because you choose that it matters to you. If you are harmed physically, that matters, and thus you must decipher the occurrence that resulted in the harm, and the only way to do that is to attribute a meaning to it. You might attribute the meaning or belief to my hypothetical event that “my wife no longer loves me.” That meaning is informed by her words, and her actions. Forgive the personal nature of the example, and I am in no way suggesting that this would ever happen, I’m just trying to make a distinction between the ability to recognize that events have no inherent initial meaning, and the ability to go through life in a continual state of never attributing meanings to events. That in my mind would be impossible.
I am currently using your method, I think it is very beneficial, but this post of yours I have struggled with. It seems to me that we can remove certain beliefs, negative core beliefs, but we then move forward in life by choosing which meanings (beliefs) we decide to attribute to new events and perhaps past events as well. This is inconsistent with never having to forgive. If I know that someone had repeatedly intentionally physically harmed me, it would be reckless to put myself near that person again. However, if I say that person’s actions were meaningless and there is nothing to be forgiven, then that is akin to saying that person’s actions were meaningless and there is no further physical harm to fear, such a perspective could be dangerous it seems.
More to the topic of forgiveness, in the study of law (specifically criminal law), there is a concept called retributivism. In a nutshell, certain actions are inherently wrong, and are deserving of punishment. Think about crimes. If someone assaults me, the “state” may choose to prosecute that person simply because society has created a law that says the action of assault is inherently wrong and deserving of punishment. If I on the other hand I wanted to seek damages (e.g. money for hospital bills from the resulting injury) from the person that assaulted me, or obtain a restraining order, then I can sue under a theory of tort law in civil court – but this is separate from the criminal trial brought by the state founded greatly on the theory of retributivism (though also founded on the theory of utilitarianism – punishment will teach the wrongdoer not to do wrong). The concept of retributivism is widely adopted by most societies. To say a crime has no meaning initially, or ever, (which is what I interpret this post to be requesting of me), goes in the face of the theory of retributivism, which contributes to the foundation of most criminal legal systems throughout the world, and could be used to support the saying, hurt me once, shame on you, hurt me twice, shame on me. Thus, it seems prudent to attribute meaning to harmful occurrence, so that you can avoid them in the future – no meaning, nothing to avoid.
So the difficulty I am having with your post, is that it appears to propose that we should not “choose” to “ever” attribute a meaning to an event. l;Please let me know if my interpretation is incorrect.
Sincerely,
Ryan
Ryan,
Great reply and arguement.
I look forward to reading Morty’s reply.
Mike
Hi Morti,
I have just ordered the Natural Confidence and am looking forward going through it. Recently, I have eliminated 3 beliefs that were for free. The same beliefs are part of the Natural Confidence. Do I have to run through the whole programme again? Is it better to do it as a whole? Or could I leave the 3 “already eliminated” beliefs out?
Thank you for your answer in advance,
Oxana
Hi Oxana,
Usually when beliefs have been eliminated they are gone for good. Say the words of the three beliefs. If they feel the slightest bit true, do them again. If not, leave them out.
Good luck with the program and let me know how you feel when you complete it.
Love, Morty
I get what you are saying, but what if the event were you wife leaving you? Would you not conclude she did not love you anymore? I recently had my boyfriend “bail” on me with no true explanation or apology. How would one extract that that has no meaning from your philosophy and how can you apply it to my example of your wife? Many thanks.
Hi e,
It might mean what you suggest, but not necessarily. It could mean she thinks is she is getting ill and loves me so much she doesn’t want me to take care of her, it could mean she is going through something very upsetting and doesn’t want me to see her being so miserable.
Even more importantly, even if she said she didn’t love me any more, that would have no meaning. It doesn’t mean I’m not loveable, that no one will ever love me again, that I’ll never find another wife, that women can’t be trusted, etc. Even not being loved has no meaning.
What do you know for sure if your wife leaves you? Nothing. What do you know for sure if your wife doesn’t love you? Nothing.
Love,Morty
Great!
:-) :-) :-)
Hi Morty,
I just started my volunteer work with rape & abused victims and I wonder if I show the group this article as a topic of discussion, would i be able to provide some explanation behind your ideas if the group were to ask me questions there & then?
I think this is a wonderful article for the group as the past event(s) they have been thru were very traumatic, and the usual “forgive & forget” does not work as it “should”.
I believe the “Not needed to forgive anyone” idea is a shift in paradigm from the old saying “forgive & forget” because forgive & forget is not easy to do, especially when many things are not clear cut. Based on my experience volunteering, I doubt whether forgive & forget method ever worked at all. More likely people tend to suppress the emotions & memories of an unpleasant event than really let it go.
I believe showing the group this article will provide them more avenues of looking at their past with more perspective in hoping it will shed more light to the group & able to move forward with their lives.
I meet with the group once a week & I like to use this article as a discussion topic for next week but I’m afraid I’m not at the level of able to explain to them the “science” of why a man named Mr. Morty Lefkoe made this point.
I hope I don’t confuse the group more. :)
Hi Jay,
Please feel free to use my article with your group if you think it would be useful.
Love, Morty
“If someone constantly yells at you, it doesn’t mean anything and you might decide you would rather spend time with people who don’t. That obviously includes parents.” from Morty.
Let me see if I get this. This behavior of yelling in itself is just an occurring. It has no meaning. What brings me to decide I would rather not spend time with someone who yells at me? If it has no meaning, then among other things I’m not insulted by that person. I’m not angry at them. I don’t have any emotions about the yelling because it has no meaning. It may, however, have consequences such as breaking up conversation.
What domain does my decision come from? Where does my liking or not liking something come from? Someone hitting me is easier to see, because there may be physical pain or damage from being hit. But yelling? With no attempt to figure out if I’m getting this, I don’t like being yelled at. Why don’t I like it?
I’m having trouble here, I am so encased in my meanings, I can’t really express my question very well~!
Hi Jocelyn,
We can have values and preferences that are not necessarily rationally justified, they are just our preferences. Given that, we will choose to be with certain people or in certain situations, not because it is right to do so, but because we choose it. Events don’t have to have meaning for us to choose them.
If I enjoy discussions where everyone has an opportunity to express his opinion, I want to spend time with people with whom I can do this and refrain from spending time with people with whom I can’t. There is no right or wrong involved. There is no good or bad involved. People I don’t want to spend time with are not wrong or bad. Their behavior (interrupting others, monopolizing the conversation, etc.) has no meaning; I justvhave no interest in spending time with them.
Love, Morty
dear morty,
if “meanings” exist only in our minds, and they are not real,
so the thinking that we control/direct our body to get what we want (eliminate – and having +) are not real too, because they exist only in our minds.
so we BEING LIVED !!!!!!
IS IT TRUE ?
THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!
robert
Hi Robert,
Thoughts in our mind are “real.” They do exist. Meaning does exist in our mind. Meaning is not inherent in events.
Love,Morty
I agree Morty, we always need forgiveness because we believe someone is doing wrong to us and at the back of our heads we also think that person wants to intentionally hurt us when its not true. When people do things, they always believe what they doing is absolutely right therefore they don’t believe they owe you an apology. In fact, they actually want you to apologize to them. I guess if we look at things that way, we will realize that wrong or right is just an individuals perception. Therefore we shouldn’t live a life full of anger in anticipation for a never coming apology, rather we should just let go.
Morty,
I understand what you are saying, yet I believe that forgiveness is a necessary componant of the healing of the mind and body; it’s a final clensing at the level of the soul.
Even though, on a rational cognitive level, a person may see the ‘event or occurence’ in new light, on a cellular level the remnants can be scorched into the being like a branding iron on the side of a cow hide.
In my experience, when a person says those three words, “I forgive you” it is a final powerful final release.
Hi Duane,
You are assuming that the event itself produces “remnants” in our cellular being. But if the event has no meaning and we never give it a meaning, then on a conscious level and unconscious level there is no emotional/physical/cellular response.
I’m not talking about talking yourself out of a feeling; I’m talking about not having a feeling at all as a result of not giving an event any meaning. If you’ve never done this it might be hard to imagine.
Love, Morty
Hello Morty,
I really enjoyed your article. I agree that there is no need for forgiving since the meaning you gave the occurrence is based on your own beliefs. I’m not sure I have a real feeling for forgiveness. I like to call it ‘letting go”. Thanks again.
Really good points. Given that we know that a person is always behaving appropriately to the way life occurs to him/her, it doesn’t make much sense to hold their behavior against them. That doesn’t mean we can’t make it clear what the consequences of that behavior is. So if someone’s behavior towards you is intolerable for you, you can make it clear that if they persist in the behavior, there are consequences – “I will remove myself from this relationship” “I will hit you back”, etc. So we’re free to deal with the consequences effectively, not stay stuck in resentment.
Hi Lon,
I agree. How you act is a totally separate issue from the fact that events have no meaning.
If you don’t want to be in a situation, leave it.
Love, Morty
This is timely and the simplicity hits home. I came to the same conclusions with my father though perhaps not so eloquently. The dynamics of a triangulating family always kept on alert for “meaning” behind words and actions. It’s taken me a long time and I still struggle with “letting go.”
For decades I thought the meaning of my father’s actions was that he just didn’t like me. A year after he died I learned it was shame that drove the distance between us. That was a pivotal understanding for me and has changed my life in profound ways.
But the struggle continues. What happens when you don’t give meaning to actions others expect you to? I give no meaning to their expectations but they give much meaning to my lack of reaction. This has put a wedge with members of my family. So I practice not giving meaning to their reaction to my reaction. Dizzy yet?
The meaning I’ve given to the events that most hurt me is that the people involved purposely treat me some way in order to teach me a lesson. I have always been very analytical and cannot get past this idea because their actions seem to support my interpretation. This meaning makes me resentful and mad. Their actions seem manipulative.
I would really like to accept this belief system but am not convinced it can work for every situation.
Hi Natasha,
I’m not talking about a technique that will work or not work in all situations. I’m taking about the fact that events have no inherent meaning, i.e., you can’t draw any conclusions for sure from an event, you don’t know anything for sure that you didn’t know before. And meaningless events can’t make you feel anything.
This has been my personal experience and the experience of hundreds of people in my occurring course who have learned how to stop giving meaning to events.
Love,Morty
Great Morty! It’s only a waste of my life to be unforgiving toward anyone and myself. I feel so much better since doing the occurring course.
In a situation where the person doing the action that ends up hurtful to someone else has the best intentions for you, I understand that there is no need to forgive because the meaning that the hurt person gave to the action simply wasn’t there. But what about in a situation where the person doing the action is consciously making a decisoin that they know is not good for the other person, but for whatever personal reason still do it. In your example, your dad had your best interests in mind, but let’s take another example, a father who wants to smoke and is driving in a car in the winter with a tiny crack in the window, he has a child in the car that is coughing due to the smoke and he continues to smoke…for years. This father doesn’t believe that second-hand smoke is harmful, but he cannot help but see that the child is in physical discomfort from the smoke. He is not looking out for the child’s best interests, he is simply taking care of his own needs. He does not mean harm to the child and his actions are not performed to hurt the child, he simply puts his own needs first. The only meaning I give here is that the father wants to smoke and does so, no harmful intentions towards the child, but I cannot imagine how this cannot be seen as selfish. This is a random minor example that I am just using to help illustrate my question. In a case like this where harm is done, without evil intentions, how can one not at least see selfishness in this action and therfore there is something to forgive or not to forgive.
It never ceases to amaze me how much I take away from Morty’s posts or just reviewing the material from the Occurring Course. I absolutely get this post because it happened to me growing up. I was the product of verbal and physical abuse growing up from my dad and at the time, I thought he would eventually kill me. I couldn’t figure out why but I knew that I was scared of my own shadow.
After taking the Occurring Course, I realized that my dad was only doing what he thought was best and based on his own limiting beliefs about himself. Every negative or positive event that occurred during my life with my dad growing up had nothing to do with me. The events literally had no meaning. Dad gave it meaning when my behavior either did or didn’t live up to his expectations for me. And I gave my Dad’s behavior towards me meaning (I’m not loveable, I’m not good enough, I’m not worthy) when he hit me because I didn’t know any better.
You know, just writing those phrases in parentheses above had zero effect on me. YEAH! I love the Lefkoe Method.
Thanks Morty! My best to Shelly.
Stefan
Great Post Morty,
Love your process, love feeling so much lighter and free’r. love the fact that I don’t have yukky reactions to other people’s choices. Thank You Sincerely.
I agree and disagree. The Course in Miracles says that “Forgiveness recognizes that what you thought your brother did to you have never occured.” It also talks about what people commonly think of is forgiveness has nothing to do with real forgiveness. That type of forgiveness still sees the person as wrong but I am going to be the better person and forgive. Once true forgiveness has happened one realizes there is nothing to forgive. I think the process of dissolving the meaning that we have given to past events is the same thing as forgiving.
Hi John,
If someone doesn’t understand my position on this issue and I do something that they feel is hurtful, then I will certainly apologize. I apologize frequently even though if the same thing had been done to me I would not have needed an apology nor needed to forgive the other person.
Love,Morty
Yes, Morty. I agree 100%.
Actually, that’s what I call forgiveness — shifting out of the perspective that what happened *shouldn’t* have happened and that it’s wrong or bad that it did happen.
Adjusting my wrongitude and gratitude changes the whole map. :)
Please forgive me…..When someone asks that of you, and they do not understand the “occurring” thing, I have no problem forgiving them. If they feel the need for being forgiven, that’s fine with me.
Very interesting – I see it in several ways…i.e., there are absolutely wrong actions (driving while under the influence, especially if it results in a death or deaths), the things psychopaths and sociopaths – or even narcissists! – perpetrate. Additionally, if one believes in the authenticity of their religion, there is absolutely right and wrong, good and bad – actions, and/or perhaps even thoughts. I think the distinctions that you are highlighting are with regard to intent – i.e., your father had no ill will; most people don’t (and if they do temporarily in a fit of hurt or anger, they will later realize it and make amends). Even sociopaths and psychopaths and narcissists!! They can’t even be included in the discussion because they are mentally ill to a greater or lesser degree, but even they do what they do out of compulsion, warped and skewed perception, etc, not, to my understanding (or experience with narcissists) a conscious CHOICE to do “wrong” instead of “right.” To the contrary, they have absolute conviction that what they’re doing is “right!!!” They simply have zero capacity to empathize or see anything in the world but their own myopic (and warped) perspective. Nothing else exists.
In any case, the bottom line is that there is without question an entire body of reality that has nothing to do with religious convictions or assertions of “right” or “wrong,” but which we MAKE “right” or “wrong,” “good” or “bad” based on our personal feelings and perceptions – which Morty speaks so eloquently to. I also think, however, that it’s important to note that while there are those for whom “there is nothing to forgive because they didn’t do anything “wrong,” there are also many for whom that is merely a rational thought, but which is a (not conscious nor deliberate) cover up for emotional pain (of betrayal, abandonment, shame, humiliation, fill-in-the-blank) so deep that the individual cannot (or believes s/he cannot) handle – and thus they deny and/or suppress the pain deep within the subconscious. They truly believe that they are “fine” and that they have “let bygones be bygones” (i.e., perceived it as wrong and then forgiven), and/or that there simply isn’t anything to forgive. In those cases that pain can cause troubled relationships (for no apparent reason) and/or manifest in illness. This comes up all the time in energy healing – I’ve seen and experienced this phenomenon myself numerous times. I think it’s important to acknowledge this reality as well.
Hi LM,
If you contend that some people think deep down that they have been wronged and then “pretend” that all is well, I agree. That certainly does happen. And when it does there is resentment and pain that is being suppressed.
That does not negate the fact that the event still had no inherent meaning, by which I mean, you can’t draw any conclusions from the event. As I said in my response to Liz:
“So if the event is someone deliberately trying to hurt you, what do you now know for sure other than that fact? You don’t know that the person will try to hurt you in the future, or that he will hurt anyone else, or that anyone else will hurt you, or why he wanted to hurt you, etc.”
And what is “wrong” to you is not necessarily wrong to others, in a different century, a different civilization, etc. And no matter how “bad” something is, if you learn from it and it enables you to achieve something you wouldn’t have otherwise, was it really “bad”?
Love, Morty
Hi Morty,
I fully agree with what you had said in this blog post about “Nothing to Forgive”. I think this is a good lesson for all the jewish people who went through the holocaust. They need to understand there was no “meaning” in their suffering and it was they who gave it meaning. I think we would have a much more peaceful and saner world today as a result of the jewish people not wanting to get even with the rest of the world for the perceived “wrong” that was done to them and the rest of the world sitting ideally by and doing
nothing about it at the time.
What about explicitly meaningful gestures, like attending my son’s college graduation ceremony? The ceremony itself was boring, and not worth attending for its own sake. I attended because I wanted to let my son know I was happy for him. His experience of graduation was better because friends and family were there to celebrate and share in his joy.
If taken to it’s logical conclusion, does the complete letting go of meaning lead to nihilism? I’m genuinely interested in your perspective on the bigger picture, Morty. My questions aren’t rhetorical. (I’ve used your Natural Confidence program and the effects were amazing.)
Hi Janina,
The fact that events have no meaning does not mean we shouldn’t do things that we know will have meaning to others. I do things for my family all the time that I know they will like and appreciate. They make me feel good doing them beucase I know they will like them.
But the events still have no inherebnt meaning (you can’t draw any conclusions from them).
You might call my position nihilism, but I’m not proposing it because I “like” it, I’m proposing it because it seems like an accurate statement about reality. Good and bad are social/individual constructs. I don’t think you can see good or bad in the world.
Love, Morty
Thanks Mr. Morty. After reading all your responses in this thread I think I have a clearer idea of what you’re trying to convey. Extrapolation and assumption – “creating meaning” – is fraught with potential error. Don’t go around creating meaning arbitrarily, it’s a trap. It gets in the way of living.
Using my previous example, just to see if I get it. I went to the graduation ceremony because I wanted to show support and affection for my son, and I enjoyed myself. My son was happy I was there. (He told me so.) Simple.
But here’s a potential trap: Someone might assume my presence there means I’m a “good” parent and that I love the kid. Along the same lines, someone could assume my absence means I’m a “bad” parent who doesn’t love the kid. (Parents who don’t love their kids show up to graduation ceremonies too.)
Your course seems to be about learning to strip away assumptions that get in the way of perception. Hope I have that right.
Thank you for your attention here, and the work you do. It has changed my life for the better.
All the Best,
Janina
Hi Morty,
I agree that there’s nothing to forgive. However, I think that as adults, we have the choice of whether to maintain a relationship with our parents or not. I don’t believe that ‘blood is thicker than water’, because in many events in my life, ‘water’ has proven itself thicker than blood. I don’t think that we need to hold onto a relationship with a parent only because they are our parent. Some of the questions I have asked myself are: ‘Would I hang out with this person if they were not related to me? Do I have something to learn from them? Do they help me to grow as a human being?’. If the answer is no, then I think that we need to let the relationship go. And, yes, everyone makes mistakes…including our parents. But, if they refuse to take responsibility for those mistakes and offer meaningless excuses (aka ‘beliefs’), then I don’t think they deserve our time or attention. Just my personal opinion….
Hi Ana,
I agree totally that even if someone’s behavior has no meaning, you can still choose to spend time with them or not.
If someone constantly yells at you, it doesn’t mean anything and you might decide you would rather spend time with people who don’t. That obviously includes parents.
Love, Morty
Interesting post. However, I have had significant results from practicing forgiveness. For me that was my first stepping stone, these days I don’t think there are things that need to be forgiven, because actions are just actions. They may be more or less wise, but I choose to not let them affect me in a way that would call for a need to forgive. So I’m definitely on the same level of understanding as you now, but I still think forgiveness is a good exercise. I think people who are new to this kind of work might need to go through unconditional forgiveness first, before they realise that there’s really nothing to forive. Just like I did. Maybe if we all practiced huna and cut aka cords regularly, we wouldn’t ever feel the need.
WOW.
When I think about all the people who have done things to me which I really didn’t like and which hurt at the time, I realize what great gifts I received as a result of my learning to handle the effects and the pain. In fact, the last great upset about two years ago led me to spending the entire winter holiday reading Steve Pavlina whose website sent me to the Lefkoe Process, which led me to read this post. I’m grateful for what seemed like a really bad time two years ago!
Hi Jocelyn,
What you describe happens to lots of people all the time: something happens that seems bad at the time and then later on it turns out to have been valuable.
Was it really bad and then it became good? No. It never was “bad” to begin with. It had no meaning and we gave it a “bad” meaning at the time and then later on we gave it a “good” meaning. But we made up both meanings.
Love, Morty
Hey I have a question. Why do you assume your dad did what he thought was best for you, and acted in your best interests? There are many people in the world, many of whom are parents, who KNOW they are hurting other people, who KNOW they are hurting their children, and who are perfectly capable of changing their actions, but who choose not to, because they literally do not care. For example, sociopaths, who comprise approximately 4% of the population of the US (they are much more common than most people are aware), have no empathy. They derive all of their pleasure and enjoyment from power games; it is amusing to them to commit purposeless, malicious actions, which neither help them nor the person they are harming, simply because of the thrill of imposing their will on another person’s existence. If your father was a sociopath, then it is entirely conceivable that he would take a manipulative pleasure in deliberately giving your mother small amounts of money–like the asshole who tips a penny to his waitress: he is not tipping a penny because he has a frugal value system which evolved during hard times, he is tipping a penny because he enjoys causing distress in others.
Of course, it’s entirely possible that your father was NOT sociopathic and/or malicious, but was indeed, as you say, misguided. My question, though, is, what makes you think he is misguided instead of being a sociopath?
Hi Raphael,
To begin with, I knew my father pretty well and know he wasn’t a sociopath. But that’s not the point. The point is not the other person’s motivation or psychological state, but the fact that events (including people’s behavior) have no inherent meaning. And meaningless events can’t make you feel anything.
Meaningless events do have consequences (we didn’t have money that would have made our lives easier, I didn’t have a father for most of my life, etc.) — but consequences are not the same as meaning. And my dad’s behavior had no meaning. Thus, nothing to forgive.
Love, Morty
Hi Morty,
Your answer to Raphael is very interesting and I think also responds to my qestion (below) as well. So I understand when you say that the point is not the person’s motivation or psychological state, but that the events themselves have no inherent meaning. So then, my question becomes this: I’m not upset because of the event, I’m upset that someone’s motivations or pyschological state were selfish (for example) and that they didn’t think of me. For example the child who’s father smokes in the car in my example below could be upset with his dad because he didn’t think of his son and thought of his own needs instead. So he is not upset because of the event, he is upset because his father had selfish motivations, and the way I see it, then there is something to forgive or not.
I am really intrigued by your techniques and ideas would really like to fully understand them. I thought I had assimilated them and have been trying to use them in my life, but this post on forgiveness made me realize that I actually don’t fully get it and this is exactly what’s been bugging me. I hope you can clarify this for me. Thanks.
Hi Liz, that’s a good question.
I hope Morty is able to answer this despite his busy schedule as I really want to have more clarification to the “nothing to forgive” idea.
Hi Liz,
When I say an event has no meaning, I mean you can’t draw any conclusions from it. You don’t know anything more than the event itself.
So if the event is someone deliberately trying to hurt you, what do you now know for sure other than that fact? You don’t know that the person will try to hurt you in the future, or that he will hurt anyone else, or that anyone else will hurt you, or why he wanted to hurt you, etc.
Events have no inherent meaning.
Love, Morty
I have a question that is somehow connected to the idea of someone being a sociopath and the idea that events have no inherent meaning and that what makes something good or bad in the world is just the meaning we give it. What about killing other people? I could say, what if someone is a psychopath and he kills someone. The family of a killed one will suffer, but what is their choice, they can dissolve their emotional reactions by changing the meaning or? And do you have any idea, how does someone become a psychopath in the first place? Is there a disorder or is he making meanings in his mind that are considered unacceptable by other people? And if a killer feels remorse, is there still nothing to forgive to himself?
I now I threw quite a lot here, but these are I believe quite interesting things and I would highly appreciate your answer.
Best wishes Morty and I just wanna say thank you for Lefkoe Change Belief process. It helped me a lot.
Hi Morty,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond to my comment. I’m afraid that my question still stands though….I accept and understand that events have no inherent meaning, but the need or wish to forgive is not necessarily based on the event, but in my opinion, the intentions behind the actions, which do exist. For example, say I accidentally trip on a stool and hurt myself. If the stool was placed that way with no evil intention, there is nothing to forgive, the whole thing is an accident. But if someone deliberately puts the stool in my way to trip me, there is a bad intention behind the action and I might get angry at that person and then there is a situation in which one might forgive or not forgive someone. We say we forgive someone for an action, but maybe it would be more accurate to say we forgive someone for their intentions, or for doing an action with bad intentions. So although I think I understand the idea that events have no inherent meaning, I still don’t see how that proves that nothing needs to be forgiven.
By the way, I agree that one shouldn’t draw conclusions about intentions from events. I feel like that is a huge, wonderfully beneficial message that I have gotten from your videos and blog. however, if we have ascertained that the bad intention was there from the person who did the action, then it is no longer an assumption and then we can choose to forgive or not forgive the person for deliberately harming us, no?
Best wishes,
Liz
I agree with you Morty. My parent’s divorced when I was too young to even know my father. I did try and reestablish contact with him, but from what he said it was not something he was willing to do. No harm no foul as far as I’m concerned. His rationality for leaving in the first place was, you know what your mother is like. Yeah we both agreed that mom was nuts.
Even to this day I have no idea why she was so angry. It sure played itself out in her relationships though. By the time I reached high school she had married and divorced 4 times, lol.
Ironically she gave up on that concept and got involved with married men for the next 20 years. There was this incident in the nursing home some months ago where they made a huge deal out of something that happened. Called the cops and everything. Yeah she got caught doing the nasty with her boyfriend. lol
The way I looked at it was, what business is it of mine ? Those are her choices. I made sure the administrator, and the police knew that too.
as a side note, I also think that a huge percentage of the self help industry is backwards in its thinking. Primarily because you focus on what you don’t want and by doing so reinforce that thought frame in the mind. Which in my opinion is a waste of time. You know what I mean, that healing fixing clearing mentality.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on jealousy Morty. I think that jealousy comes from occurrings like, he’s better looking than me, her life is better than mine, things like that. What do you think?
Hi Gary,
Jealousy is the fear that someone will take something away from you that you already have, and usually results in anger at whoever you think is taking it away. Envy is wanting something that others have.
Although these emotions could be the result of conditioning, it is much more likely they are the result of occurring.
Love, Morty
What kind of occurring would cause envy?
His car is better than mine, I should have it. I need that car. He’s better looking than me. My life would be better if I had _____ (blank).
Those kinds of things?
Thank you,
Gary
Morty, I couldn’t help noticing something about the way you wrote this sentence:
“Although these emotions could be the result of conditioning, it is much more likely they are the result of occurring”.
If I’m not mistaken, in the past you have written sentences very similar to that one, but you’ve always used the word “beliefs” instead of “occurring”.
Also, I believe you said in an interview that, for a long time now, you’ve been “the belief guy” who is all about beliefs, but lately you’ve been wanting to focus on the topic of occurring. Is this your new main focus?
Alex,
I wrote a blog post recently explaining that our occurrings determine our moment to moment behavior and emotions, but our beliefs are the primary determinant for our occurrings. https://www.mortylefkoe.com/beliefs-dont-behavior/#
Love,Morty
Having gone through the occurring course, I agree that there is nothing to forgive. Thank you for the reminder that anything I feel needs to be forgiven is just an occurring I can dissolve.