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As I read your comments to last week’s post—in which I contended that forgiveness is never necessary because people’s behavior has no meaning—I could hear many of you thinking, “If events have no meaning, what’s the point of life? Why do anything? Why care about anything? In fact, how can you possibly care about anything if nothing has meaning?”
These are thoughtful questions that I will answer in today’s post. (Please also take a look at my responses to last week’s comments at https://www.mortylefkoe.com/dont-forgive/#.)
The difference between consequences and meaning
Events, including people’s behavior, usually have consequences. In my case, for example, my mom had to work two jobs when I was young and I had to work full time while going to graduate business school as a result of my dad not providing financial support. But his not giving us financial support had no meaning, by which I mean, I can’t draw any conclusion for sure from his behavior. I don’t know anything I didn’t know before, from his behavior.
We have had clients who had been sexually abused earlier in life. The meaning they gave the abuse (the beliefs they formed) was that they were damaged goods, that men couldn’t be trusted, that life was dangerous, etc. When they realized the event had horrific consequences but it had no inherent meaning, and when the beliefs had all disappeared, they experienced a freedom they couldn’t have imagined possible. The event hadn’t been running their life; the meanings they had given the event had been.
The role of values
A belief is a statement about reality that feels true, but exists only in our mind. It is the meaning we gave to a series of meaningless events. We have beliefs about ourselves (e.g., I’m not good enough), people (e.g., people can’t be trusted), and life (e.g., life is difficult). These are meanings we gave to events in our lives.
A value is a belief about what we think is right and wrong, good and bad. Examples include parents should (or shouldn’t) …, the function of government should be …, people should …, it is wrong to ….
These and any other value statements are beliefs. You can’t “see” in the world that they are true. Many people would disagree with any value statement you make. They exist only in your mind.
If value statements are always a type of belief and beliefs are always meaning we make up to explain meaningless events, then value statements are arbitrary and cannot be absolute truth. I’m not saying this is easy to accept, or that it doesn’t feel “wrong,” or that it seems to create many insolvable problems. Maybe it does. Wanting values to be objective and wanting your values to be the “right” values don’t make them so.
Ken Wilber has summarized the conclusions of many people who study the development of consciousness. They have demonstrated that society and individuals go through stages of consciousness, with each stage having its own unique worldview. The three stages that exist in most Western counties today are Traditional (ethnocentric, family values, accepting religious dogma as absolute truth), Modern (world-centric, the Industrial Revolution, science, rationality) and Post Modern (pluralistic, civil rights for all, a concern for the well-being of all people and for the environment). People in each stage of development think that their worldview is correct and the others are wrong. If you have any question about this, look at how conservatives (largely at the Traditional stage) and liberals (largely at the Post Modern stage) view each other. (See almost any of Wilber’s many books for more information on stages of development.)
You forgot your life is a game
When you play a game, be it a sport like golf or tennis, or a card game like poker, or a board game like Clue or Monopoly, you feel good when you win and bad when you lose. Why? Because you have arbitrarily accepted that something is better than something else. You try to get the little white ball in a hole hundreds of yards away in less tries than someone else. Is it really “better” to do that? No, there is nothing about the nature of reality that makes it better. It’s better because we say so, and only because we say so. The same is true for any sport or any game.
Yet despite the fact that we arbitrary made up rules that said something is better than something else, we get excited when we “win” (in other words, do what the rules require better than others) and sad or even upset when we “lose.” What does it really mean if we win or lose? Take a moment and think about it. … Can you get that it really means nothing. But because we “pretend” that it matters, we give all we can give, mentally and physically, to winning and not losing, and we have positive emotions when we win and negative emotions when we lose.
And yet, despite those reactions, some part of us knows that we are playing a game. We know that at some point we will put the game away and go back to “real life,” to our family and career. So although we have emotional reactions to how well we play the game, the feelings only go down so far and not farther, because we know it is a game. The emotions engendered by a game are rarely as intense as those in “real life.”
Life is a game just like all the other games. The only difference is that life is the only game that we don’t realize is a game. Each of us has made up, largely unconsciously, a set of rules (our values)—based on our worldview and our beliefs—and we think our rules are right and inherently true. And everyone else’s are wrong. Sorry to break the bad news: Ours aren’t right and theirs aren’t wrong.
I’m not suggesting that we do anything different than what we are already doing. All I’m suggesting is that we acknowledge that what we think is real is actually a game. We made up the rules and now we can play the “life game” full out; we can be happy when we “win” and dissatisfied when we “lose.” But realize it is only because we said so.
And here’s the bottom line: It is always possible to remember that we made up the rules, even if they were made up unconsciously and adopted largely by osmosis from our culture and our parents. And when we do that, we also can remember that events have no inherent meaning, at which point the pain and suffering resulting from “losing at the game of life” can be dissolved on the spot.
Please let me and my readers know what you think. Your comments increase the value we all receive. I read all comments and respond to as many as I can.
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You distinguish between consequences and meaning, but I still don’t see how that helps avoid upset in practice. The likely consequences of an event ARE the event’s subjective meaning and are what cause people anxiety. Just realizing there are other possible outcomes or interpretations doesn’t really seem to change anything for me. One will remain convinced of the likely consequences that are expected to flow from an event. Sometimes one is pleasantly surprised and things don’t turn out to be as bad as one feared. But very often, our assessment of what an event will mean (e.g., long and painful treatment, lost planned vacation and long nights at the office to imposition by a boss, the need to totally re-do laborious work accidentally deleted, loss of respect and standing in a peer group due to an embarrassing gaffe, etc.) is very accurate and exactly what one ends up having to endure. One can manage those things, but that doesn’t remove the upset that occurs when one sees in a flash what an event almost certainly will entail.
I am in total agreement with how this game works. I have been reading Morty’s blogs for a while now and enjoy every newsletter that is sent to me. I am a firm believer that this works if you work it. If you practice this in your life, it works every single time. I am amazed and grateful for all of the ways in which Morty can help us live better quality lives on a daily basis.
Events has no meaning.
So event that Mr. Lefkoe wrote this post has no meaning…
Also the event that i am writing this comment has no meaning…
so these meaninglessness have any meaning????
dear morty,
please what is the goal, eliminate occurring or create a positive occurring ?
thank you.
robert
Hi Robert,
The goal is to eliminate occurrings. In some cases, and not always, it might be appropriate to create a positive conscious assessment.
Love, Morty
When its truth,it could be written on a wall, and it would (still) make sense.
This post is great (Means a lot to I).
Morty,
Thank you for writing this article, I can see the truth in what you say, it will help me reduce the stress in my life (which i know i cause myself by giving meaning to things hat have no real meaning). Thanks again :)
Rules R rules,
U win some, u loose some…
But for me,
It’s how u play it!
I just completed your Natural Confidence program and found it to be extremely effective at removing limiting beliefs. One side effect I am experiencing, however, is having difficulty with motivation. My previous survival strategy was perfectionism coupled with the belief I am capable and competent. It was a highly effective motivator for getting things done.
After the program, I now don’t feel anxiety about not being good enough nor do I feel like I need to prove my worth to others. Oddly enough, without that resistive energy fueling my productivity, I find it harder to engage and stay on top of my responsibilities.
Have you seen this before and can you offer any suggestions?
Morty,
I think we agree more than we disagree.
“I contend that events have no meaning, i.e., you can’t draw any conclusions from an event. You don’t like my statement but you provide no evidence that I am wrong.”
I agree with this statement. My quibble is more tangential, arguing against conflating the above statement, with embracing total moral equivalence and rejecting any sense of right and wrong.
I don’t know if it’s an accurate representation because you did not respond, but my example of the sociopath is one of a host of many ways an amoral view falls flat.
“Please explain how value judgments are objective, inherent in reality for all people at all times.”
I don’t believe that at all, so we may be talking about two different things. Because again, I agree with you that life is what we make of it, the “rules” and meanings we give are subjective. But what I am saying is that just because we each have our own reality, does not make them an equally accurate reflection of reality.
As far as evidence goes, this discussion is largely academic and philosophical anyway, but I could see a blue chair and say it is green, but it is still blue (yes of course, within the established rules that blue is blue etc. but let’s not go there). I could also claim that gravity does not exist. You could respond and cite the evidence and proclaim that yes, gravity exists. Would our opinions on the existence of gravity be equally valid? I don’t think so. Your greater understanding of the subject would make for a “better” and more accurate perspective on the subject of gravity.
The same principle can be applied to other areas of life, for example history and economics, and its influence on our worldview: Though it certainly isn’t objective, a well-versed individual could cite things (including principles and values) that have worked, things that have not, and frame their policy opinions on it. Now pit that against someone who is disinterested and ignorant on both subjects, whose opinions run contrary to the first. Are they both EQUALLY valid?
Would you agree that not all values are equally beneficial? For example, would you agree that a society that sees nothing wrong with rape, would be less ideal for a father with daughters, than a society that does? To go along further with this, let’s assume one’s daughter has been raped. I’d agree with you that the reaction of the father would not be 100% consistent with everyone. However, upon hearing of the rape of his daughter, would a father who responded by smiling and saying ‘I want to give that fella a high five’ and meant it — be a morally acceptable response? What if you/me was the rapist himself? I’m sure we can agree that that is a repugnant thought, and would be for nearly any father. However, if I understand you correctly, you are arguing that to be opposed to raping your own daughter is not an objectively good value?
And I regret having to take this to an extreme, but I do so merely to challenge what I’d argue is an absolute statement: That there is no good or bad ever, that no values are better than another ever.
I submit that evil can exist. Behavior can be bad. A 12 year-old in Libya raised in a world of violence and zealotry, taught to hate and wage war against those who disagree with him, and ends up suicide bombing a mall 5 years later is NOT equivalent to a 17 year-old who does not blow up malls. You can from afar see what made him do it, understand it, etc. — but that doesn’t justify it, doesn’t make it acceptable — even if he and his cohorts believe it to be a divine calling.
Hi Jeff,
You say evil can exist and behavior can be bad. By a certain set of values, that is true. My point is the universe has no inherent values. Only individuals can have values that they make up. And if they make them up, there is no objective standard by which to say which ones are right or better than others.
Yes, most civilized people would agree today that rape and murder are bad. But a few thousand years ago tribal people might not have agreed. And if that is the case, how do we know what people with a totally different type of consciousness will value several thousand years from now?
Do you assume that everyone’s values other than your are not as valid as yours and that yours (and the rest of current society) are inherently right.
I agree with most of what you think is good and most of what you think is bad. The difference is that I know my values have been adopted from my culture and society and in a different one I’d have different values. If that is the case, how can I argue that might are inherently right?
If you were raised by the Taliban, you would grow up thinking their values were right and they would be your values.
It is really hard to give up the idea that our values are subjective, isn’t it?
Love, Morty
Morty,
I think I understand your perspective better now. It is in some ways a semantical discussion, but I still disagree that all values (and all behavior) are equally redeeming/valid. And further, not all values or views within a certain framework are equally valid, as I discussed earlier in my examples. But maybe you would agree with me on that point, that having values and framework is good for civilization, inherent or no.
As to whether others’ values are as valid as my own, it would depend. It would also depend on whether it affected me, my family, etc. For example, as an American who values Constitutional rights, recognizes them as an overwhelmingly net positive for human liberty and prosperity, could not say that I see the view of the Taliban as equally valid, ATLEAST as it pertains to the United States.
So yes I reject the idea that the existence of differing worldviews and subjective realities MEANS that 1-there is no objective truth to anything where there is disagreement and 2-any and all views are equally valid.
However, it is not to deny that in different circumstances, e.g. raised by the Taliban, I would think differently. Of course I would. But that in and of itself does not make it morally equivalent. Are the illiterate African child’s views of stare decisis as valid as a Supreme Court Justice? Further, are we to ignore consequences? Track record of the respective worldviews? Their influence and impact?
Or take a car accident with five witnesses. They all have slightly varying accounts. But we also know that the car accident did actually happen (the event AND the objective reality). We later realize thru video that only one of the witnesses recounted an accurate depiction of events. Knowing this, how can all five accounts be equally valid?
Enjoying the discussion, Morty. :) And even though it may not sound like it, I really do agree with the general point about the meanings we give to things. Unfortunately, there is a downside to this awareness — of constantly questioning and challenging yourself and seeing how often you and others fall prey to it. If you let yourself, it can become an endless loop. And since we human beings are quite limited, it’s tough to confront the reality that you’ll always fall short of ‘figuring everything out,’ a tendency of mine exacerbated by OCD.
Morty,
Thought-provoking post that speaks to some of the things that come up when I do the Lefkoe Method. While this can be very helpful in one’s personal life, I think it’s a stretch to extend the “nothing has any meaning, there is no right or wrong” mentality to the world and life at large, not to mention dangerous. Here is where I take issue:
“Many people would disagree with any value statement you make. They exist only in your mind.”
They may disagree, but that doesn’t *necessarily* make the value statement NOT the truth. In fact, to say it only exists in my mind IS a statement reflecting one’s worldview! You don’t know it only exists in my mind, it could in fact be the truth. For example, one’s religious views could in fact be THE truth, and to say it only exists in one’s mind is YOUR opinion of “the” truth — which is that everything is subjective.
But beyond that, what bothers me even more is this idea that NO values, NO behavior, is good or bad; that everything is equally valid. I know you have already acknowledged that for a society to function, having certain values (i.e. laws) are worthwhile if not vital. And yes, it is true that spanning different regions and time periods, one would see dramatic differences in values and laws. You’d also see common threads across nearly all of them (e.g. murder). Considering this, one could argue that there are some natural laws, a knowledge of good and bad, where murder and rape and that type of thing is concerned. Those who do not find those things objectionable are sociopaths who cannot see right and wrong.
Are we to pretend that the sociopath has a better grasp “reality,” unrestricted by subjective right and wrong? Is “sociopath” just a label, even though in fact, that individual’s mind truly has been compromised?
Again, I appreciate the principles of what you’re saying as it applies to certain things — but extending them to everything inevitably leads to questions I just posed and the absurdity it represents. Yes, I may be wrong, but I do think there is some inherent right and wrong, certainly as it pertains to specific situations.
And also: there are objective realities and truths, even if we can’t fully grasp them. PEOPLE may view everything subjectively, but it doesn’t mean that they ARE subjective.
Hi Jeff,
Yes, I might be totally wrong. But at least I am providing some principles and logic for my point of view.
You are disagreeing (which is fine and which I welcome) but you are not providing anything to substantiate your view other than you disagree.
I contend that events have no meaning, i.e., you can’t draw any conclusions from an event. You don’t like my statement but you provide no evidence that I am wrong.
You also don’t like my statement that there is no right or wrong. You say it is a stretch and dangerous. If you disagree, please explain how value judgments are objective, inherent in reality for all people at all times. I might be wrong, but you’ve given me no reason to think so other than to say if I’m right that presents problems.
I’d really love to hear why you think values are objective rather than subjective, other than if they are subjective that would present problems in the world.
Thanks for joining the conversation.
Love, Morty
Morty, you spoke directly to me on this one. Thank you for the perspective shift. I appreciate all you are doing! Looking forward to the Occuring Course!
This comment was bold:
The meaning they gave the abuse (the beliefs they formed) was that they were damaged goods, that men couldn’t be trusted, that life was dangerous, etc. When they realized the event had horrific consequences but it had no inherent meaning, and when the beliefs had all disappeared, they experienced a freedom they couldn’t have imagined possible…
Are you implying that the ONLY harmful effect of sexual abuse in the meaning victims create about the events? What about contracting HIV? Unwanted pregnancy? Feeling violating physically against one’s will? Having people you trusted betray you in such a deep way? Morty the method is solid but come on… it’s not the solution to every problem humans face. I urge you to be careful and consider the limits of the Lefkoe Method. Logic and belief elimination often aren’t enough.
Hi Jason,
What deeply affects people years after the abuse is not the fact of the abuse, but the meaning given to the abuse.
Of course there can be pregnancy and disease; I clearly did not mean that.
As I deliberately pointed out, there are consequences of events; but meaning is only in our mind. And the major problem arising from sexual abuse is the meaning given. This is not my theory; my experience with a number of clients is that they felt free when their beliefs were eliminated.
I never said TLM was the solution to every problem. I’m not sure where you got that from. I only said that clients who had been sexually abused said they felt free when they eliminated the beleifs associated with the abuse. That is a fact.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Love, Morty
Hi Morty and All,
I have heard this message before in different ways (that of life being a game), and it resonates within me, it’s just difficult for me to keep in mind through my day to day, and eventually I end up forgetting and living as if it weren’t true. How to get past this? What is the best way to use this information/knowledge in order to live a happier, more fulfilling life?
I have used The Lefkoe Method and eliminated 13 limiting beliefs. After I did the first 3 on the trial basis, things started shifting in my “reality”, it was amazing, but I hadn’t connected the dots until later. I continued on with the beliefs and then made an amazing change in my life, my greatest feat, I quit smoking – a habit I held onto for 16 years (half of my life). For anyone who hasn’t tried the Lefkoe Method, I urge you to do so. I had amazing results, and will have many more to come. :)
Please see my full review here: http://thrive-365.org/home/eliminating-beliefs-the-lefkoe-method/
Also, feel free to contact me with any questions about my experience with the Lefkoe Method.
Thanks for this, was reading at the weekend about the different meanings given in East and West cultures eg: soft handshake the norm in the East, firm in the West, how having an empty plate in the East means you are still hungry, and more food will be brought – a useful example of how the same thing can be given different meanings.
I do agree with what you say, but it will take a while to de-condition myself I think – although of course that is just a belief …………
Excellent post. Really helps put things in perspective. Thanks for your inspiring work, Morty.
I think this is a very good point, thank you for sharing this.
Very interesting!! I work parttime as a NLP psychotherapist and as part of the therapy I use Morty’s: Event, Meaning, Feeling quite often – which often enlightens my clients and set them free :-) Thnx, Morty!
Just within the last couple of days I have realized, that not only within NLP is presuppositions – they exist in every individual and therefore in every group we participate in! So suddenly it made so much sense why I sometimes find my work in a daycare institution so hard. In the staff: Whose presuppositions are we to accept as a value we work for? Which goals to set (even they are already being dictated from the municipality)? How can we negotiate meaning between each other so that we are all content and safe? Which part in this does the leader play? What kind of game do we want to play in that game? :-)
Sincerely yours :-)
Hi Jennifer, it sounds to me as if maybe your boyfriend is an introvert. If that’s correct you would need to find something you know he likes and entice him with it. Maybe he likes some aspect of nature – insects or sunrises or maybe something exotic like earthglow :) – anyway decide to go at a time and place where you can see such things and he may think it sounds like something he would enjoy. Good luck.
Dear Morty,
I like the premise of this idea that “events have no inherent meaning”. However, I’m still struggling with some aspects. Concerning intimate relationships, is there ever a reason to believe that two people in a relationship should or should not care about the meaning that the other person ascribes to any given event or thing? In my opinion, it’s important to be aware of where someone is coming from so as to best understand them and their needs and wants, because I want to be able to do things with and for them that they will appreciate and enjoy and vice versa. In my opinion this is how I show that I am giving and loving. I also like this mindset toward inmate relationships because it helps to avoid setting oneself up for disappointment by not placing unreasonable expectations on others. Let me give you an example of a situation that I would not consider “bad”, yet I do consider it “difficult” to cope with, for lack of a better adjective:
Ex: I like to walk along a lake or river or pond, really any body of water, until I find a cozy spot to sit to relax and enjoy nature. I grew up surrounded by nature, and have always found this to be a very relaxing experience. I don’t actually get to do this very often anymore because we live in the city of L.A. where large expanses of nature are scarce. So, when I have the rare opportunity to do this activity, it is a little bit exciting for me because it’s not something I can just do anytime I like, like I could when I was a kid growing up in Oklahoma. Since my partner and I have been together (for several years now), I haven’t had many opportunities to enjoy this activity of walking along a fresh water lake or river or pond to just sit and enjoy the peacefulness for a little while, but when the opportunity does present itself I am overjoyed and a little bit nostalgic. My partner and I enjoy many things together, and to me this would be an extra special activity to do together. I have invited him to come along with me several times since we’ve been together, but he has never agreed to join me. At first, it didn’t bother me that he declined joining me and I thought nothing really of it and I went alone and enjoyed myself – however, I always extend the invitation and every time I do, he declines. I really would enjoy sitting together and cuddling as I find nature to be very beautiful and since this is not something I get to do very often, I want to share it with the person I love. This man is my favorite person to be around and I want to share this experience with him because I deem that it would be a little bit romantic and special. However, he has maintained that he doesn’t want to go, even to the point of getting annoyed that I ask him to join me every time the opportunity arises. I’ve told him that it I would really like it if we would go with me, at least one time just to try it and see if we can enjoy this activity together, because I think to myself that he won’t know if he likes it or not until he gives it a shot. He has lives his whole life in the city, but has commented on many occasions that he always enjoys nature and he wants to spend more time in nature, so I don’t understand what his logic is for not going or getting annoyed that I invite him to go with me, as my request seems to me like a silly thing to say no to. I find it difficult not to think things like “Why won’t he come with me?” or “What reason is there not to go?”. When I ask him why he doesn’t want to join me, his reasons are usually along the lines of “I just don’t want to” or “There is no place to sit (like a bench)”. I’ve offered to accommodate his second reason for not wanting to go by offering to bring our little beach chairs and/or to bring a blanket along. I try not to argue about it, but I’m not sure how to handle this situation and even to me it seems like it should not be a big deal. However I know I’ve made it clear to him that it is something I want to do together because it has special meaning to me. I get a little bit hurt because he knows that if he asked me to do something that I’ve never done with him, I would try it for his sake (and often with a sense of adventure). I don’t see any reason why this particular activity would be a bad thing for us to do together, and at this point my feelings have gotten hurt because I can’t understand why he won’t indulge my request. The meanings that my mind tries to place on the situation sound like “He doesn’t care about what I want” or “This thing I’ve asked for doesn’t matter to him” or “He’s being insensitive”. I even think “He obviously doesn’t understand that this is important to me”, but somehow I don’t really believe that particular thought, because I’ve made it clear that it IS important to me. I don’t want to think/believe any of these kinds of thoughts, so I’m struggling with this because, in my opinion, he doesn’t seem to have any logical explanation as to why he won’t take a stroll along the water and try sitting together in nature for a spell. I guess it’s not enough for me that he just doesn’t want to. :/ Also, I get the impression that there may be some other reason, or fear, that he’s not telling me about; but I can’t seem to get him to disclose if that’s true or not. So, since I don’t know what meaning he ascribes to the idea of sitting together after a little walk along the water, I really don’t know what to think. What’s worse is, now when I have the chance to do this activity, I find it quite difficult to enjoy it because all I can think about is how I wish my partner would join me and not understanding why he won’t.
Thoughts? I don’t want to see him as “the bad guy” over something like this. It seems trivial to me, but at the same time, I am having a difficult time because I don’t understand why he doesn’t just do this with me, or to at least try it out one time. I think my hurt has a lot to do with the fact that I’ve always been willing to try new things with my partner and he knows that. So, my earlier question was “is there ever a reason to believe that two people in a relationship should or should not care about the meaning that the other person ascribes to any given event or thing?” I don’t see what I’m doing wrong here or even if I am doing something wrong. I think of myself as open and understanding, and in a way I feel that I’m not being appreciated. I just want to have my partner join me in an activity that I find very pleasant, but I can’t wrap my head around why this particular thing would be off limits to him, or to anyone for that matter. It’s hard for me Not to think things like “Who wouldn’t enjoy this?” or “What’s wrong with what I’m asking this person to do?” or “Why does this person ignore me on this?”
Thanks for all your work, Morty. Hopefully you can answer my particular question. Thanks. – Jennifer
P.S. anyone elses advice/insight is also welcome. :)
Hi Jennifer,
Thank you for the invitation to offer advice. I would like to give this a shot.
Regarding: “is there ever a reason to believe that two people in a relationship should or should not care about the meaning that the other person ascribes to any given event or thing?” The only way to answer your question would be to translate what the word “should” means to you. For the sake of argument, how about this possibility: “Is there ever a reason to believe that two people in a relationship would be right if they did or wrong if they didn’t care about the meaning the other person ascribes to any given event or thing?” The unfortunate thing is that your partner can never actually know what meaning you are ascribing. Even if you try to describe it for him in detail, he is still left to make meaning of his own in his mind.
While you are hurt because you make up the meaning: “He’s wrong if he doesn’t come because I think he would like it. If he really loved me he would do this for me!” He may well be making the meaning: “If she really loved me she would cease and desist with asking me to spend time doing something I know I would not enjoy.”
Therefore, it only hurts you to choose to make the meaning you do. If instead, you choose to entertain his refusal as inherently meaningless; (meaning you don’t know anything FOR SURE about you as a result of his refusal) understanding that it is a POSSIBILITY he is not meaning to hurt you — though it seems real to you he is, you can achieve the loss of your negative emotions. You can lose the hurt.
Sally
Hi Jennifer,
I agree with Sally, I can see why you find it hurtful, but it may be that he is giving the meaning of you always asking him along as you nagging him, when he has told you he is not interested in coming. Maybe say, in a neutral way, that you are sorry that he does not want to share this experience with you, that you will not ask him again, but if he changes his mind at any time to please let you know.
Alternatively, you could ask him how he would feel if you asked him to do that with you instead of a present at Christmas/birthday – but be prepared not to feel hurt if he still says no.
It could be not the event itself but the continual asking that is a turn off for him he may have the belief that ‘women just won’t take no for an answer’ , and be digging his heels in on principle.
None of it means he doesn’t care for you
Julie
Hello Jennifer,
I hear you pain as I have had similar experiences and felt very disheartened then one day I found this book and it helped me a great deal. Here is the link It tells how we express love differently I hope it helps you love Debbie
http://www.5lovelanguages.com
Hi Jennifer
Your situation can be quite frustrating especially since it seems like such a minor issue of a walk by the river. And his no and annoyance isn’t justified to you…you can’t understand why can’t he do something so small if he really loves me.
Lets try and see it from a different perspective…
You already enjoy the experience tremendously and now you want to enhance it by sharing it with him. So its your ‘want’ at work. Why are you not satisfied by enjoying something which you don’t have much of as it is. (And whats stopping this question from coming to his mind also)
Your insistence on him joining you has lessened the pleasure of it for you too. When out walking now, you see something beautiful you are unable to enjoy it fully as earlier because you feel that he is missing it. It again brings to mind his refusal…mind becomes clouded by the un-understandable reasons for it and you lose out on enjoying the moment even more.
By insisting that he joins you for enjoying the sharing, you have made him responsible for your enjoyment and that is one responsibility (maybe) he does not want to take on.
When you experience the joy of a peaceful walk…bring home the peace part of it, not the resentment of not being able to make it even more peaceful. Maybe by seeing and feeling the peace and bliss in you caused by your walk your special man may feel the urge (from within) to try it out himself. Give him the space in this matter…he gave you yours to spend by the water.
This is another meaning / point of view one can attribute to your situation.
By the way I too love being by any water body…it IS peaceful.
Keep walking :)
Wow what a great way to view the situation Dolveen! Thank you.
Everyone gave wonderful insights to the many questions posed in this thread, and I apologize for not having had time just yet to respond to those who commented and gave advice to me. I’m 7 months pregnant with a busy schedule, so I don’t always have time for the computer lol However, I really received a lot of value from reading all of the responses to my queries and those of others here.
Thanks to everyone!!
Keep on allowing your consciousness to develop everyone! It’s an amazing journey we’re all on, and we’re all in this together (in my humble opinion).
Love,
Jen
Hi Jennifer,
You state above: and at this point my feelings have gotten hurt because I can’t understand why he won’t indulge my request. The meanings that my mind tries to place on the situation sound like “He doesn’t care about what I want” or “This thing I’ve asked for doesn’t matter to him” or “He’s being insensitive”.
All I am trying to say is that the meanings you unconsciously and automatically “make up” to explain his behavior come totally form you, not from the event. The event has no inherent meaning. It could have many possible interpretations, but the event as such has no meaning.
If you gave his behavior the meaning: He has beliefs that prevent him from enjoying nature, there is something about sitting in nature that is uncomfortable for him–and that it has nothing to do with you, you’d feel differently.
Most of the upsets in life come from making up meanings for meaningless events and thinking our meanings are true.
Love, Morty
Thanks, Morty. I do agree with you that events themselves have no meaning except whatever meanings we make up to explain them. Why do our minds do that though? It’s difficult to stop it from happening since it really seems like we are wired to try and find the meaning in events so that we can rationalize or understand why things happen to us and around us. Thanks for your response.
I can’t agree with the point that events have no meaning. To my mind this statement is very-very dangerous and misleading. Surely, most people like it, because it liberates them from responsibility for their actions and behaviour. Any event or action can be justified, because with the assumption “events have no inherent meaning” objective reality doesn’t exist anymore, any values are eliminated, there are no good and no bad events or actions, you can do whatever you like as it has no meaning. What if the murderer thinks in the same manner? (exaggeration here is made consiously). Maybe I do not understand the concept well enough… But this is how I see it. I beleive objective reality exists and values should also exist. They can be different for different people, but still each person is responsible to develop and realise clearly his own values and beliefs and act according to them.
I have to agree with you, Oksana. I too am struggling with how this really works. I can’t help but think that you and I (and probably many others) are getting hung up on the idea that each person has a personal responsibility for their own behavior and motives. When one believes they are a good person, and has worked hard to be a good person (like I have, as I can only speak for myself), that really “means” a lot to us. I think what this really means for you and me (and I could be wrong, so don’t take this as static truth) is that if we feel that it is our personal responsibility to behave in ways that are transparent, kind, compassionate, understanding, seeking to give and to be love (loving), and all with positive intent – then taking on the belief that “events have no meaning” suddenly exempts others from being personally responsible for themselves, in relationship to us. That makes the whole idea of having relationships seem pointless if we can’t trust that others will respect our own standards and meanings. How can they hold themselves to a standard of treating us with the same conscientious respect that we give them? I can’t just pretend that others’ actions don’t impact my choice to be with them/around them or not. And because I am an understanding and compassionate person not just by nature, but BY CHOICE – I feel that it’s important for me to go out of my way to be that kind of person and to want to be in relationships with people who also have a personal desire to be fully conscious and loving towards me. If events have no meaning, doesn’t that mean that relationships are meaningless? If so, what is the point?
I’m not making the same points as Oksana, but I feel I can relate to that persons position. I don’t reject the idea that the meaning we place on events can be changed, and are sometimes wrong in the first place, but how can we live our lives gleaning NO meaning from events when clearly we are wired to do that. Please help me understand, Morty!
Hello Oksana and Jennifer,
I think Morty’s concept and technique are being expressed to help people who are experiencing pain and struggle due to the beliefs they hold and he is trying to say that they themselves formed their belief in the first place and that if they realise this they have the power to change it also and that by knowing this they can be open to other perspectives on the same event.
Our beliefs are just decision we have made about ourselves and the world around us and we form them from the minute we are born and we are continually updating them as new experiences occur and often people have formed limiting or self destructive points of view and they don’t understand that they do have the power to change them and they feel maybe they are a victim of circumstance.
In my experience many of the beliefs that we hold are formed when we are really young when we had limited understanding and we can get stuck or hold on to them to our own detriment. You 2 angels seem to be very happy with your beliefs and that is fantastic however there are many people that are not and these are the folks that Morty hopes to help.
That’s my take on it all and I hope it helps.
Big love Debbie
We can’t go without making meaning, it’s just that we can’t ever know.
It’s like the story of the Islamic sheikh who wanted to slay the wealthy Jew, but needed a legal (for his society) reason. An excuse. So he asked him a question: which of the religions is the true one? If the Jew said “Islam,” then he would be lying, or he would have converted. If he said, “Judaism,” then he would have committed a crime against Islam, and could be slain as well.
And the Jew was a genius. He said, “Ah, master, I don’t know. It’s like if a man had three sons, and one wonderful signet ring. All of his sons wanted the real ring, so he had two copies made, and gave each son one of them. I am not wise enough to know which one is the real ring.”
Of course, the Sheikh was enthralled by the genius of the jew. But the point is, nobody knows which of our meanings, which of our values is True.
That’s what “There is no meaning” means.
Every day is a challenge to think out of the box.
Hi Oksana,
If events have meaning, tell me a single event that has meaning. By meaning I mean: I learned something for sure from the event that I did not know before. Can I draw any conclusions for sure from any event?
Do I learn anything new about anybody, about myself, about life from any event?
I’ve never encountered an event where I learned anything for sure.
Given our values (which are different for different people, in different place, at different time sin history) some things are good and some things are bad FOR ME. I can’t say they are INHERENTLY good or bad, in other words, that everyone in any situation would always agree.
If different people create they own values, then they are not inherent in events, which is all I’m saying.
Thanks for contributing to the conversation.
Love,Morty
This is technically true, Morte.
It makes me think about that movie Dances With Wolves. There was a scene in it, where on of the native americans steals Costners hat. He gets mad, and insists he get his hat back because the Indian “stole” it from him. Hmmmm, the Indians didn’t see it that way. They viewed it as ok because they apparently had no concept of “ownership” in the way that we do, i.e. private property, etc. But they kept the hat and offered a trade. Interesting.
So ok. But still, even if these “values” conflict, without any sort of “rules of the game” then it would be chaos or anarchy, and therefore we could not live in civilized society as it stands.
Other cultures have similar or different “life game rules” that we might see as completely “wrong” in our eyes as we primarily view most things through Judeo Christian rules, so things like “stealing” and “adultery” have much different meaning that in other cultures.
Hi Lexi,
Maybe we need to accept some rules of society for society to be able to function. That does not make the rules “right” and the “values” of another culture wrong.
Love, Morty
Remember the difference between consequences and meanings. If Ted Bundy changes the meaning of murder in his mind so that he can do it, and changes the meaning of going to jail to mean that he’s won- did Ted win or did the Law?
“Losing” and “Winning” are meanings. “Going to jail” and “being acquitted” are consequences. Consequences seem to exist and be something we can all agree on (with a degree of error that scientists are paid to puzzle over.)
Your post that a lot of our interpretations about what we tagged to events is interesting and stands to elevate our pain if we don’t take them as somehow to do with who we are. Buy I struggle with loss of loved ones that mean a lot to me.. My dad’s passing away, my own one day, and just seeing other people losing their lives or losing what they built and others starving … I’d all this is no meaning… That why do I feel so much sorrow and pain?
Hi Vivian,
If you are still feeling sorrow and pain, you are giving their death meaning. That’s not a bad thing to do; most people in our society do that. But the sorrow comes from the meaning, not the event itself. Dissolve the meaning and the emotions will disappear also.
Love, Morty
Hi Morty, you really did read my mind! :) Thanks so much for explaining this subject in further detail! I see now the delineation between beliefs and consequences. It makes a difference! I also appreciate your sharing Ken Wilbur’s explanation of the progression of consciousness. I was trying to explain this to someone yesterday and was having trouble finding the right words. And it is all too easy to get caught up in the game of life. Seeing clearly through our beliefs is a great exercise in kindness and compassion – for ourselves and others. Thanks, again!
I think this is profoundly true. We live in a society of labels, where we are not allowed to agree with one point without having to be categorized. It also brings to mind a book I read a few years back on how written language produced the downfall of our intuitive abilities. Once we put our thoughts on paper, they become limited. This has produced the effect of deluding the masses and electronics has made it even easier.
I actually figured this out several years ago. What helped was all that masters of the secret crap. I woke up one day and realized they made it all up, that none of it has any truth to it what so ever. No such thing as a guru, no such thing as a healer, etc etc etc. lol.
Morty, can the consequences of events be changed by people fighting for their beliefs and values? Can we still fight for carefully considered beliefs and values and not give meaning to the consequences of events ? Or are these ways of behaving ultimately useless because of the meaninglessness of any events?
Leila,
That was the point I was trying to make: Once we choose our values and create our game, we do fight for them–just like we do in a game.
Once you say your game is important, you behavior does matter to you.
Love, Morty
This is powerful! Once realize and actualize, it will bring an end to our reactive mode, and foster our creative SELF……its the end of feAr base beliefs……Freedom<3 thank you for this article Morty Lefkoe<3
Thank you so much for all you do – and especially for sharing your amazing thoughts and insights. Each day you help me. For example, I have been suffering lately because I have not completed a project for my business. Every day I tell myself some variation of, “The project is late. I have failed. I am a failure.” The truth is … in my game of life I made up a rule about when the project “should” or “must” be completed. NO ONE ELSE IS WAITING FOR THE PROJECT! The rule of when it should be completed was arbitrarily set BY ME! And now I am using this arbitrary rule to torture myself daily to the point where I cannot finish the project due to the stress I have created around its being late. Amazing. Your post today has set me free. I see that my arbitrary deadline has no meaning. Completing this project is a game for which I make the rules. I have the ability to decide, “Whenever the project is completed works for me.” I have the ability to decide, “I will have fun working on the project and complete it when I am satisfied with the result.” Or any other “rule” I care to decide.
Thank you so much Morty. You continue to change my game of life for the better.
Interesting is what comes after the beliefs are eliminated. Is it some kind of progress or evolution of consciousness? And what are the beliefs that should be and should not be? Yes, I may be wrong, but I believe in the God. It could be true or could be not, that is the freedom of choice, no one can prove neither point. So, what are we actually should be choosing to believe or not to? What are “the important beliefs”?
Hi Muza,
There are no “important beleifs.” There are no beleifs you “should” choose.
Obviously if you want to live in a given culture, you have to keep those rules in mind in order to function. But you do not have to accept any specific rules.
Love, Morty
I find it very liberating that events have no meaning, but of course I can give them meaning and enjoy life! I have a choice and this makes me less a victim of circumstances. Thanks for this post!
Thank you, Morty.
Following your explanation, it is quite easy to accept it intellectually that our beliefs or values are not “real” but as we have been making them real our challenge is to really live this truth in our life.
What I am not sure about is whether you are saying that there are no given rules for the game of our life at all. Is it only up to us to make all the rules or are there any “given” rules. E.g. I think there is a given rule of cause and effect. That means that our current reality is effected by what we did in past.
Hi David,
Our current reality “might be” affected by the past, but if we insert something today the future might not be the same. There are a lot of scientists who would question that cause and effect is absolute.
Love, Morty
Morty:
I liked this a lot. It is very, VERY, thought-provoking.
Perhaps this is a good time to bring up to this list the notion of the game of games. That is. our belief that this here and now can NOT be Heaven on Earth.
But…what if we consciously now chose to have this game be the co-creation of Heaven on Earth.
I’m with you on that one Martin.
I’m wondering what would happen if all the energy and ideals of peace and beauty we associate with heaven if directed at earth would really co create more harmony on earth?
I’ve been working on changing my beliefs to be in alignment
with what matters to my spirit and I have noticed that the concept of duality is just that and as I accept and allow that to be I am more able to bring my awareness down from my head into my heart which I believe to be my sacred souls sanctuary that part of me that is multidimensional.
From this place I feel the peace and beauty that is and I am able to live and create from this space more and more.
I like this a lot. It is very, VERY, thought-provoking. Much appreciation to everyone :-)
Hi Morty, thanks for your blog post! I agree totally with the view that life is just a game, for which we make up the rules. I just don’t see how ‘Life is a game’ is an answer to concerns like ‘ Why do anything? Why care about anything? In fact, how can you possibly care about anything if nothing has meaning?”
Thanks
Hi Grbn.
I’ve taken Morty’s Occurring Course and your query got me thinking.
Let me paraphrase the questions in the context of golf: “Why play golf? Why care about golf? In fact, how can you possibly care about golf if golf has no meaning?” (If you are not a golfer insert any sport/card game/board game/etc. to which you can relate.) Let’s disregard the pros who earn a living from golf and consider only the weekend hackers who pay for the privelege of “a good walk spoiled.”
Golf has meaning because we give it meaning. It is our choice to value the achievement of driving the ball to have it land on the green in one stroke. But honestly, why do that? What’s the point?
The answer to both the question of golf and of life is the same: Because each individual decides the meaning of his/her own existence. You decide for you. I decide for me. You care about anything because you have decided to care about it.
The value of deciding is that you get to determine your experience. It is my opinion that there is no authority higher than your own choice. If your own choice of experience is moot then that, in my opinion, is the real case for a nihilistic outlook on life.
To say that ‘life is a game’ is a choice. Life isn’t a game. Life isn’t anything. The most honest thing I can say is, “Life is.” Anything beyond that is my choice: Life is a song; Life is a struggle; Life is a work in progress; Life is a bitch; Life is a pleasant walk in the sunshine.
So, why do anything if nothing has meaning? Because that’s what you’ve decided has meaning for you. And you have the freedom to change your experience by choosing to do so.
I hope this helps. I’ve written this reply to help clarify my own thinking. Thanks for asking such a good question.
Hi Korey,
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it a lot. And I agree with your line of reasoning. “Why care about anything?” –> because you’ve decided to do so.
You could take this to the next step and ask: “Why do you decide to do so?” I think because it makes your experience of life more enjoyable and thus brings you happiness, which is for many people (as well as for me) the ultimate goal in life.
But, you could ask yourself then, “Why should you decide to care about X and not about Y?” I believe love is the answer to that. Caring about anything comes from you, from the heart, from the love within, the ‘Creator’ etc.. And I believe, no reason is needed for love. We all have love in our hearts and we can use it to make our life’s more pleasant, so why shouldn’t we?
Furthermore, still people can think you’re just fooling yourself when you ‘pretend’ something has meaning (to you), when you ‘know’ inherently it hasn’t any meaning at all. Maybe those are the real nihilists. But perhaps they should ask themselves: “Why is an inherent meaning better than one we’ve made up?” That, again, is just a meaning :)
To get back to my first question, I don’t believe ‘Life is a game’ is the answer to the question of “Why to care about anything?”. But I do believe it can help to view life as such, since it helps to bring us a more pleasant life and brings us happiness.
Love, Grbn
PS: I’ve written my reply to clarify my mind as well ;-)
Hi Gerbn,
The reply to youroriginalpost ansered most of it. I will just reply to the final question.
Why care about anything? Why not?
Creating a game makes life more fun. Make up something to care about and then care. It’s fine if you don’t but life would get very boring.
Love, Morty
Hi Grbn,
I think what Morty is saying is if events are inherently meaningless and values are arbitrary, playing the game of life (and just as importantly all the subsets of games within the game of life) could also be viewed as meaningless. Therefore “Why do anything? Why care about anything….”
He is stating that it actually doesn’t matter if we “win” or “lose” unless we allow ourselves to think it matters.
The crux is, even though events may have no inherent meaning, we will get no pleasure out of (the game of) life if we choose not to attribute positive meaning to anything. To assign positive meaning makes us feel good. I believe Morty is suggesting we go ahead and indulge in those good feelings. There is nothing wrong with that; except it is helpful to make a conscious note to ourselves that we are choosing to do so.
It is the attribution of negative meaning that causes us to feel badly. If we have been aware that it is our choice to feel good when we think we are “winning,” it should also be evident that it is our choice to feel badly when we think we are “losing” (or we are hurt because someone else is cheating or breaking the rules or quitting the game, etc.)
Morty’s line of thinking is unique. He suggests you make up your own rules to your own game, for the sole purpose of making your life enjoyable. This can be done by creating/enjoying your own beliefs and values and luxuriating in all of the positive meanings you wish to create while “winning” your game of life.
However, when you find yourself in a position where you are clearly “losing,” based on the rules you had previously established — REMEMBER this is just a game! QUIT acting like it matters (because it really doesn’t.) QUIT assigning negative meaning (because events have no inherent meaning.) If you have the feeling you are “losing,” then you are still entertaining the idea that the game is real. You are still mentally playing. To relieve the bad feelings, you have to say to yourself that you choose not to play a game that can hurt you — so just mentally quit that game and you will neutralize your feelings.
It’s the best of both worlds: choose to feel good when you want, choose not to feel badly when you want. It’s certainly an interesting idea to contemplate! Morty contends this is quite possible. I am learning and practising his methods to see for myself and am experiencing some success.
Sally
P.S. I can’t help but think of Charlie Sheen’s fiasco last year. Most people who followed that story would think what a fool he was making of himself; but that wasn’t his perspective. He just grinned back at all the cameras to declare: “Winning!”
The actual answer is two fold. You can’t stop doing stuff: caring, not caring; breathing, not breathing; moving, not moving. So as long as you have to make a decision, you might as well make them the way you want.
And it’s not that the meanings we give aren’t real; they just aren’t stuck and they aren’t “right” or “wrong.” So, as Sheryl Crow says,”If it makes you happy, it can’t be that bad; if it makes you happy, why the h*** are you so sad?”
And I think Jem- or her songwriter!- must have studied the Lefkoe Method, Because, as she so eloquently sings,
“It’s just a ride, it’s just a ride
Don’t be scared, now
Dry your eyes:
It may feel so real inside
But don’t forget! -enjoy the ride.”
So make up the rules and play the game, just know that, if you’re not having fun- maybe you need to change the rules.
Excellent work
keep it up
Hi…
I completely agree with the part about making rules based our own perceptions and then labelling everything good or bad, right or wrong based on what goes according to our rules or what breaks those rules.
The more complicated we make make our rule book, the more complicated our life becomes. Nobody is reading your rules because they are too busy following their own rule book.
Thanks for an interesting read.
@ Morty – Insightful post as always that I will strive to remember!
@ Dolveen – Love your line “Nobody is reading your rules because they are too busy following their own rule book.” We used to tell our kids that we had this imaginary “Parent Handbook” that detailed how we were to raise them to take the focus off of us as the bad guys.
oooo, I love that one. We often feel slighted because of something other people do or don’t do. (if my husband really loved me, he would…) What we don’t realize is that when people do things “wrong”, they don’t do that on purpose to hurt you, but because they have different rules. Maybe they are doing something really nice on another level, but you don’t even see it, because it does not score points according to your rules. Or maybe they are at that time busy in a completely different game (work, sick mums, moneytrouble) than the one you would like them to be playing. If you realize that, the sting totally goes out of things that happen, and you can just calmly deal with them. (doesn’t mean you have to accept everything) Morty has taught me not to worry so much about how things ought to be, (in my book), but deal with things as they are.
Love to all,
BIS
Agreed.